Host – Belinda Heit – Communication and Education – RTA

Guest – Shae Francis – Dispute Resolution – RTA

Host: Welcome to the Talking Tenancies podcast. Brought to you by the Residential Tenancies Authority, I'm your host, Belinda Heit. Join me as we explore everything you need to know about renting in Queensland with experts from the RTA and industry. We're here to help make renting work for everyone.

Regular and open communication between parties in a tenancy is key to preventing disputes. If there is a dispute, it's best to be proactive, respectful and communicate clearly while negotiating and finding a resolution. Make sure you understand your rights and responsibilities under Queensland tenancy laws and share information and knowledge with each other to work together. 

Today's expert from the RTA is Shae Francis from Customer Experience. Welcome, Shae.

Guest: Thank you for having me back, Belinda.

Host: We're so excited to have you back by popular demand. Now, can you tell us about your role at the RTA and what you're responsible for.

Guest: Sure. Absolutely. So like previously mentioned, I've been working here at the RTA for 5 years now. It's been a great time ever since I've started. At the moment I'm leading a team of experienced officers within the dispute resolution team. 

Our primary focus is to assist with reaching that mutual agreement and to also be impartial through those conversations, to try and help parties navigate to a favourable outcome. As conciliators we aim to create and provide a calm and supportive environment so that parties feel that they can discuss their concerns and reach a resolution.

These discussions are facilitated via teleconference and at a mutually agreed time between the representatives from both parties in attendance. The desired outcome we look to achieve is to be able to explore and navigate options, such as previously mentioned mutual agreement.

Through these discussions, we look to reality test and educate our customers around their legislative requirements as well as discussing self-resolution strategies that they may consider if they find themselves in a similar situation in the future.

Host: Sure, yes. And today we are talking about the steps for self-resolution, which is what we recommend in every kind of tenancy dispute. But what are the benefits for all parties involved?

Guest: Look, there's multiple benefits, but I guess we can start stepping them out to bring it into context for everyone and what they can do on a day-to-day basis. Just like being an adult, I guess.

It's the ability to raise the issue in a productive manner, which may prevent problems and further stress. When you're able to have a productive conversation and communicate respectfully, it actually helps to build that rapport and trust with the other person and makes them feel better continuing into that ongoing relationship. Because as we all know, respect is something that we all love, but we also need to give. By working together it also means that you can make informed decisions and actively shape and influence the outcome or the solution.

Self-resolution also saves everyone time and money. Don't we all love that? Dispute resolution at the RTA is free. However, if we are unable to resolve the matter and we do need to refer that on to the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal (QCAT), it can take up a lot of time and it also does cost you money.

So the quickest way is for parties to actually, you know, get together, have a conversation and also look to then document that conversation. Then everyone is on the same level of understanding and has something to refer to in order to move forward. We also know that parties who volunteer through the dispute service do have that 70% conversion rate. So obviously, yet again highlighting the importance of those conversations.

Host: That's amazing stats too. We've spoken about this before on the podcast. 70% of those disputes are resolved. Now a lot of people don't know that part of our role at the RTA is to facilitate and help customers with that self-resolution, should you find yourself in a dispute. So how do we do that, Shae?

Guest: So yes, we understand that sometimes these discussions and conversations around the tenancy disputes can be highly emotional and difficult for people to bring up, obviously, because people do take that sense of ownership when the home you’re renting, or renting out, is involved. So, there can be a lot of emotions attached to that. It’s about, you know, not being too positional at this point.

We talk about self-resolution a lot at the RTA with our customers, and avoiding difficult conversations tends to lead to conflict because obviously things fester over time. I hope that the practical tools and tips in this podcast can help parties and provide some steps to be able to structure and tackle these conversations and be able to assist with that self-resolution.

Of course, if self-resolution doesn't work, we can always apply for the dispute resolution at the RTA for further assistance. Our team of highly skilled intake and conciliation officers will be able to assist parties through those difficult conversations. Obviously, we're here to help, otherwise we don't have a job.

Host: And I think one of the things we were just talking about off air as well. Shae, is that the RTA is impartial. You know, we are [like] Switzerland and we don't take sides or tell people what to do, regardless of whether they're a tenant or a managing party.

Guest: That's exactly right. It's very important for our customers to understand our position within this conversation and it's to be impartial. We don't have the authority to determine who's right and who's wrong, although we do see evidence and we may have a personal opinion, but it's not our position to project that opinion onto the parties involved.

There is that possibility that if the parties don't agree, we do need someone to make that decision. And in the scenario, it would be our lovely friends at QCAT.

Host: Now one of the biggest aspects in dispute resolution is good communication, and this is something that we talk about in almost every episode of this podcast. But what does it mean and what practical tips can you give us here?

Guest: Yeah, sure, Belinda. You’re right. We do talk a lot about what good communication is. Good communication from our perspective is crucial to self-resolution and resolving issues in general, and these can be applied to everyday life.

There are multiple aspects to good communication and a few things that we would look for in this realm would be to consider the communication method and your audience. What's best for what you would like to achieve? Are there any barriers to the communication that you need to consider? So, things around culture, emotions, technology? Also, with communicating via text, it does not have that tonality. It may come across a little bit harsh when you don't mean it that way.

Host: It can be misunderstood, can't it?

Guest: Absolutely. So, I guess it's always good to potentially start off with that voice conversation because people can pick up on those type of frequencies. They know that you may not be communicating in such a [harsh] way. They then de-escalate the situation.

Also, there's the communication methods of using emails and texts, I guess conversations to cement the discussion so people can, as I said previously, have that reference tool and then you also have the ability to then reply to each other on the agreement to confirm the understanding.

Host: So really just wrapping up what you've agreed.

Guest: On, yeah. Every time you communicate about an issue or a dispute, make sure you remain calm and clear in your communication. What we like to reference within the business is the 4 Cs. So clear, correct, complete and courteous.

But last but not least, communication is a 2 way street. The most important thing to also do is to listen and pay attention to what the other person is saying. What you might find is that they have misunderstood your initial point or you might have misunderstood their response, so it just becomes one big mess. I think by listening and then responding, taking into consideration the other party's position, can help people a lot.

Host: Yeah. So let's run through the checklist for self-resolution and all the things you need to consider, starting with preparing for the discussion.

Guest: Yes, definitely. Preparation is also a very big key to this whole self-resolution strategy. Think about what the problem is and what we you would like to happen. It can help to jot down a few notes about the problems and your desired outcome, think about what the problem actually is and what you would like the outcome to be. It could help to write down a few dot points to what the problem is and what you would consider as the desired outcome.

If you are unsure about the problem, the context or background, or where the other person stands on the issue - write down some questions and what you would need to seek clarification on. This is super important. A lack of information and knowledge, and relying on assumptions, are the main causes of disputes escalating in the first place. Just like we mentioned before

It also does help to be correct in the information on hand and sticking to the facts. Everyone should be on the same page when the discussions happen. And it is also good practice should the matter proceed to the tribunal, where the whole process is evidence based. I guess the key there is, when you're communicating, try to limit the emotion that you're displaying through that.

Host: Absolutely it can be so easy to go to the feelings and feel the feels. I think it's really important to stick to the facts there.

Guest: Yeah, absolutely. What we also need to remember is the rental premises is the tenant's home, it’s the property owner’s investment, and it's the property manager's day-to-day business. So all parties involved generally have a very keen interest in this tenancy.

[It’s key] to keep people's perspective in mind when trying to reach that agreement. We do need to ensure that we're trying to consider what outcome we're trying to achieve. Negotiations involve give and take, so really have a think about what your bottom line is and what it isn't, and how that might fit in with what the other person wants.

It also helps to be a realistic and flexible in negotiation, which is the whole point I guess. Have an open mind. You are more than likely to resolve a dispute if you're realistic. Don't come in looking for $10,000 if you know that's not achievable.

And I would encourage our customers to think about the outcome that they could live with, because obviously through our dispute service, it's not always about getting that ultimate outcome. It's about negotiation and something that you could look to walk away with potentially, you know, relatively unscathed.

What we also do to achieve that is we reality test our customers in in that realm. What do they think that the other party would consider? And most of the time, no one really wants to keep going back and forth on the same issue without resolving it. We do need to move forward.

And remember that you all share a common goal in finding that resolution, which I think is the most important step - to opt-in to [negotiate] in good faith. And I guess to sum it all up, we need to think of a few options. If you don't reach the result you're looking for, what do you do next? What's your plan A, B, C or D?

Host: So just on that point as well, Shae, I think it's really important in those negotiations that you actually stop and actually think about the other party and get in their shoes instead of completely being all about yourself. That can be hard when you've when you've got an objective. It's something that’s really important to think about. ‘How's it going for them?’.

Guest: Exactly right.

Host: Now the next step is discussing with the other person.

Guest: Definitely. Obviously, without the other person, we wouldn't have a negotiation. What we would, I guess consider or give some direction on is to clarify concerns and the desired outcome - an apology, an explanation or a specific action.

So be clear about your concerns. Describe the problem and the impact the problem is having. Make sure you clarify what your desired outcome would be as a starting point and be prepared to negotiate.

Stay calm and stick to the facts. Make sure you have the correct information. Be respectful of the professional relationship you have with the other person and always be courteous in your discussions. Remember, it's always better to preserve the relationship you have with the other party, as it will continue through the tenancy. It doesn't just end there.

What you also need to consider is to offer constructive ideas to resolve the issue. So put yourself in the shoes of the person who isn't involved in this situation. How might they view it? So that's, I guess, an important step with the processes. That's how an adjudicator would apply themselves through this process - to take that objectional view, view the information and facts minus the emotion and make a ruling on your outcome. 

Again, it's important to keep an open mind and be flexible in that negotiation and in some cases you may reach an agreement after a single discussion.

Host: Ultimate goal.

Guest: Yeah, let's all jump and celebrate. You might have an initial discussion on the phone, then decide to arrange a meeting to talk about the issues. Whatever the outcome of the discussion, ensure that you keep a written record of the agreement reached.

Host: Exactly. So, step 3, there's the follow up discussion.

Guest: Oh, that's the most important step as well. If you agree to the plan, make sure that you are clear about the time frames. [That means] putting it in writing - what actions will be taken? Who will do what and when it will be completed? Keep a record of all the contact for reference - phone calls, emails, letters, and text messages.

And of course, you can always give the RTA a call if you need assistance with self-resolution, we can provide information and practical suggestions to help you resolve the issue, which may save you having to go through the dispute resolution process. The RTA website also contains a lot of information that could assist you through this. Also having clear, correct, and complete information when you call us helps us to give you tailored information and suggestions to resolve the issue.

Host: Absolutely. Now we have a bit of a case study where there was a QCAT matter and how it could have been different if self-resolution was attempted, or parties had good faith and resolved via conciliation, instead of going to those lengths. Can you give us a bit of background on that?

Guest: Yeah, sure. So the example that comes to mind was over a bond related matter. The parties attempted to resolve through the RTA's conciliation process, which is obviously a positive first step to settling the matter outside of the tribunal, and also why we exist.

Through our conversations with the parties involved, it was actually highlighted that they were willing to negotiate, and offers were made through the process, which is obviously moving in the right direction. As mentioned previously, sometimes the outcomes may not be ideal. So however, we do try to work towards an outcome that all parties can live with. Keyword, live with.

And so unfortunately in this particular instance the disputing party had reached their non-negotiable level, it wasn't, you know, far off, but they had reached that point, and the matter was then having to be referred to QCAT for that final outcome. The outcome to this particular case was that the disputing party ended up having to pay more than what was offered through the conciliation process, not to mention the length of time it took to see it through to the end.

So, if the disputing party in this instance had accepted the offer through the conciliation process, then they could have saved themselves some time, some money, and also had more control of the outcome.

I believe this case just highlights the importance of keeping that open mind and ensuring that you consider the offers being put on the table, because at that point, you're putting your destiny in someone else's hands, and you then have no control. I guess things are always good in hindsight, huh?

Host: And I mean when we reach that non-negotiable limit, it’s still good to take a broader view and actually understand that you're going to be liable for costs for QCAT and potentially for other inconveniences if you keep pushing the matter and you can't control that outcome. I think it's really important to keep that in mind. If you're going to be persistent in a dispute, you may not be the winner in the end,

Guest: Absolutely. Look, and I think it's also important for parties who have experienced, you know, similar situations where they have been to tribunal and not particularly had a favourable outcome for them that they may choose to do some reflection on that particular, interaction and look to potentially engage the RTA more and be more considerate of what's on offer because, I mean, first time you get stung sort of. Okay, second time it becomes a repetitive thing. I guess you know it's a good thing to reflect and hopefully you know the RTA can assist you and so you don't have to proceed to QCAT.

Host: Hmm, some lessons to be learned there, I think. Well, thank you again, Shae, for joining us.

Guest: Oh, definitely. You are more than welcome. Thank you for having me.

Host: And thank you for helping us to get that greater understanding of self-resolution in a tenancy dispute. Thank you for listening to the Talking Tenancies Podcast. For more information about the Residential Tenancies Authority, visit rta.qld.gov.au.